It's problematc, to be sure... But frankly, with how much of a ghost town PC has become, incentivising trying is not a bad thing. As things have stood, with no payouts and clone packs being as expensive as they are, how many corps trying out PC give up after a few losses? Too many. Yes, quitters are quitters, New Eden is a harsh place, etc. But we don't have enough of an active playerbase to kick people in the teeth for trying and failing. Encouraging people to practice and get better, while giving them the ability to keep trying even after some failures is how we keep the community alive at this point.

However, this change really should have occurred in concurrence with other PC changes, such as giving districts value, and making attacking more accessible for non district holders, which we can be pretty sure are coming, but not when. While incentivising more activity by reducing the risk for the less established teams is good... Having no incentive to defend land is not. This change standing alone is possibly more likely to reduce activity. While economic warfare may be an interesting aspect of PC, it shouldn't be the only aspect, even if temporarily. Shutting down exploits is absolutely a commendable thing... but why the rush now after so long?

Here's to hoping things go smoothly and the other appropriate changes are rolled out in a timely manner.

lol, says the CapAq guy.

...welcome to #lolPUBS 2.0 ;)

You do realize that there will be profitability in PC 2.0 besides ISK right? Profitability that can be used to recoup losses from using higher tiered gear in battles.




Then use the highest level gear you can, either your enemy will do the same, or you will crush them.

Gear is not a function of skill or ability, it's entirely based off of how much time you've spent playing the game, and how much ISK you have.

---

The point I'll make before I leave the thread is basically....yes it sucks now, not sure why they decided to do this before the 2.0 rollout....likely to set expectations for ISK payouts. But the fact remains that profitability in PC 2.0 is not tied to ISK, in fact it's almost entirely NOT ISK. That being said, getting upset over a drastic change in ISK payout is pointless because you'll be recouping your costs via other means. You will still be expected and able to run Proto gear because owning the district actually produces far more profit, than battle to battle earnings.

If you want to be profitable in the long run, hold the district. If you want to hold the district, use what it takes to hold the district. That is where you bread and butter is.

If people attack your district and harass you with cheap gear, then use cheap gear against them and win. If they really want to take the district, which is the real source of income, they wont be using BPOs. So will you have to deal with people trying to raid you using BPOs? Yes. That's part of defending your turf, so don't use more than you have to to fend them off. However it's the people that bring the Proto because they're looking to take your district, that's the true End-Game.

So does it suck right now? Yes. But quite honestly it seems like many of the people who are freaking out are not really seeing and comprehending the whole picture of what PC 2.0 is supposed to entail. You won't be seeing BPO vs BPO battles for district control, because if the defender wants to hold their ****, they're going to bring out bigger guns, and if the attackers want to take that ****, they'll do the same. For the battles that actually matter, you'll still see the best of the best throwing everything they have against each other.

...people are freaking out because the profit isn't going to be in their pockets immediately at the end of battle. However if you're getting BMKs deposited into your account because you've continued to successfully defended (sic) your district, you're still getting paid in a currency which allows you to buy the same damn thing that you would have with isk. I honestly do not see how that is problematic (pending actual final numbers of course)

Okay, after playing a PC in the new system it does seem to be working as intended.

Both teams went all out with proto gear. The end result was that we won and received a bit over 1.3m ISK per merc and the enemy team got just over 900k ISK. In effect we won the match and did so loosing around 30% less in ISK assets than our opponent.

I died 6 times in a full proto logi and once in a proto scout but still made about 200k profit . I would say this is largely due to running factional proto suits though, which adds an interesting wrinkle. It seems in this system faction gear can really give that ISK efficiency edge.

Looking at the system I would make one fairly minor change. Give the winner all of the salvage for the fight. Before salvage was split between the teams as the stop-gap to encourage players to fight even a loosing match. With ISK being derived for each team with "keep what you kill" it makes sense to shift the salvage to the winner. I think this would serve as a good immediate EOM bonus for being the winner. Logically it would make sense as the winners would be the ones that can pick over the battlefield for that salvaged gear.

Man this is beautiful, Kain shuts down youre argument so you have to resort to betching about selling the goddamn salvage.
Or trading it with an unfinalized tax at this point.

Maybe the sky isnt falling chicken little

See you soonGǪin pubsGǪfor ISK ;)

Here you go https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2715403

(You might have to copy the URL to the bar, been getting 404 errors lately from links for some reason)

In the future make sure you have all of the information before going on an emotionally driven tirade. Its unbecoming.

1.3 million. Some snark about knowing how to read.
The more and more you sperg on about slayer-pay, the more apparent that you have only ever done that.
You see no strategy, you see no long term logistics, you have no concept of corp-morale, or even underclassed incentive.
All you see is you're fu-cking self. ME ME ME I AND MY ELITES NEED TO BE PAID MORE

Guess what neckbeard? That entire mentality right there is why you have no NEW corps in PC, no small-medium sized low skill, entry level meatbags to shoot, because eww filthy peasants, why should they get ANYTHING for daring to have a fight with ME? Then you all cry and cry that PC is stagnant and its only the same 50 dudes shooting eachother at any time.

Do you even understand why?

Because NO NEW CORP wants to beg their mercs for ISKies to buy a shitpack, that immediately gets vaporized a bunch of grizzled try-hards that do nothing but sit around and stroke egos while beating off to RoadHouse saying welcome to the thunderdome biatch.

A loss or two with absolutely no payback (we'll discount salvage because you like to do that) is irrecoverably detrimental to such corps. You build and build and build and train, work your guys hard, to get immiediately stomped out of existence, for what?

FOR FUKING WHAT?
Garbage. Absolute Garbage.

Theres no incentive for new players in PC unless theyre already ultra rich and bored.

Making someone feel they have a fighting chance because they can get something for trying hard to fight, is the carrot on a stick approach to get you new bros to slaughter religiously.

Giving this new crude attrition model also makes it attractive to pirate corps, like mine, who have no interest in holding land, but hey, ill throw the boys a bone and attack some shithole district, lol around in BPOs and weaken the aforementioned district for someone else to come along and actually slam it. My guys are happy, they get paid for messing up someones day while doing cheap, and possibly setting off a chain of events that make the defender lose that district.


But no, you dont see any of this.
Or maybe you do, but you're so goddamn butthurt someone had the audacity to change YOUR PAY SLIGHTLY so as to invite fresh blood, that youre going to ***** and fu-cking moan and sperg about because PAY ME PAY ME PAY ME PAY ME

I get you and your cohort are all about that. Good for fukking you, bad for the game assclown.
The change is in the right direction, whether you can fathom that or not, is yet to be entirely seen.

PS, this might be what Pokey was trying to show you. Its in the archives now, meaning itll be in-game somewhere between 2 to 6 weeks. Theres a chart here. EDIT FFS RATATTI fix the link to the damn development discussion archives
its called Planetary Conquest Revisited, incase you actually do intend to read it

Goddamn children these days.

Additionally those who applied to the PC think tank received correspondence from Rattati outlining those same details.

I had to honestly read this a few times before I got what you were saying.

you bitcch about being paid for being the best.
they create a new currency, with new gear and other stuff that will only be accessed by the best of the best
and you want nothing of it?

G fuckking G el Operator.
You Win,.
I can't possibly el operate on your level of idiocy.

Well there is a bit more to it than just those ideas. Numbers and magical things, but not on the forums.

Also I apologize if I was condescending before, I'll admit that thread was well...buried. I just assumed you had signed up for the Think tank since you feel so strongly about PC and thus were in the know.

You and I have communicated a couple times before in here on a couple different things, No Worries on your being condescending. I saw the Think Tank thread and commented there as well as the original Feedback thread. No, I did not join the skype group, tho at least one person I know did. Regardless, that ideas were drafted and hatched by a select minority of a minority of playerbase isn't neccessarily bad. What's bad is that what was drafted up was put into place without any further vetting from the rest of us, the rest of that minority playerbase, in here AND what was drafted was implemented only partially wihout full publcation of the rest of whatever is supposed to go on with the implementation announcement. Instead its a case of drafed and implement without the public vetting process where the rest of us could look and say, before we're made to carry the burden, "Hey, thats cool but this is bad because..." and maybe the whole turn on the game to find the world upside-down could be avoided. PR Fundamentals that largely were solved a looong time ago, supposedly.

Its not on you Pokey, unless you're doing the mail as well as the math these days.

With the payouts being so low is this CCP's way of telling us they want less proto in PC matches?